What memories do you have of Audencia?

I’m sure my background has made my memories quite different from those of the rest of the class. Even though I wasn’t yet 30, I’d already experienced entrepreneurship, business and working in the real world.

I think the French education system should value courses like the MDC and Specialised Masters in general. These courses are goldmines that can be an enormous lever for transformation. We should be making so many more bridges between education and work, to allow more people to come back to study at 25, 35 or 45.

When I arrived at Audencia, I quickly realised that entrepreneurs and designers are made of the same stuff! They think with their guts and with their emotions. That’s how you can recognise them: there’s a rather interesting form of collective hysteria in the MDC classroom because the course is creative and gets people moving. The profiles are very (very) hybrid and able to juggle subjects and disciplines. This suited me well because I like the idea of not being confined to a specific box.

Is being unconfined your career secret?

Maybe it is! I think I’ve always regretted my default choices more than the risks I took that didn’t pay off.
Today I see things differently: I accept what life throws at me and then I observe and try to understand the systems in which we evolve and endeavour to remain proactive in order to align these systems with my desires – or the opposite.
For example, in four years in San Francisco, we never bought a car, which is very uncommon here. However, on countless occasions, our friends and acquaintances offered to lend us their cars, vans and even houses. Simply because we didn’t rush into anything, knew how to align our desires with the needs and capacities of our close ecosystem at the right time. The same thing happened to us when we were looking for a house: instead of rushing to make an appointment with a real estate agency, we talked about our search within our circle and went to meet the people we were introduced to. We listened and were open and very quickly found a great place.

It’s the same professionally: you have to be patient and know how to seize opportunities when they arise. To do this, you need two essential qualities: knowing how to conceptualise and express what you do or want, so that you can easily talk about it around you, and knowing how to give back whenever you can, in one form or another.

Is sharing the key to today’s world?

Perhaps more globally, awareness but also permanent transformation. I give this impetus to Schoolab, activating transitions with a rationale of continuous, controlled and flexible, proactive and positive movement.
The people I joined Schoolab with have all left. I stayed. Why did I stay? Because I managed to develop my job and my professional practices, and therefore my impact on the world around me. I regenerated the meaning I gave to my projects throughout my time in the company.
This is what I try to teach my students and the companies I work with. I share my own experiences to help them adopt a positive and sustainable approach to transition. Individuals who start to change will continue changing and, through a form of osmosis, this will continue to have an impact on their activities.

Change is an attitude that feeds on learning, observation and freedom of choice. In order to take power and act on what we want to transform, we must understand the world, not just submit to it. You have to develop critical thinking, which means challenging different points of view. I try to put this into practice in my courses, by inviting pro-plastic lobbyists to my ‘Deplastify the Planet’ programme, for example. We all need to find some depth of thought and reinvest in freedom of choice.

How do you see the future?

That’s a difficult question!

Today, everything is going well professionally. I have just received an award for best teacher at Berkeley. Schoolab is growing, even though we are focusing on slow, organic and qualitative growth rather than scale. By the end of the year there should be ten of us, compared to only two during the COVID-19 period and our programmes are very successful. I have just published an article on Design Fiction in the prestigious Harvard Business Review. However, the future is not just about that. I have two children, and soon three. In ten or even twenty years from now, I want to be able to look them in the eye with pride. Not for my professional success, but for having understood the issues of our time and being part of the solution.

Having children puts things in an interesting time scale and gives depth to my daily action. For me, defining a company’s vision means making sure that the activities to which I devote most of my time contribute to creating a positive impact on the world we will inhabit tomorrow.

I often say, “You can’t go wrong with sustainability.” In fact, you can go wrong, but in the method not the commitment. I am very interested in regenerative agriculture: we are involved in maintaining the community garden and beehive, which I find fascinating. When you look closely at bees, you understand both the way honey is made and the concept of social inequality. You think about healthy eating and climate justice.

What gave you this international focus?

My grandmother’s husband worked for Air France so I guess she could have travelled the world for free. Yet she never left her house for fear of access issues. I grew up surrounded by disabled people who refused to imagine the possibility of joy. I know that one day I will be paralysed and, like many of the women in my family, I may spend my last years in bed staring at the ceiling. However, I have consciously decided that I will discover the world while I still can, and make the most of my valid years.

What aspirations did you have when you were studying at Audencia? Did you write off certain careers because of your disability?

When I joined Audencia, I was two years younger than my peers and I firmly believed that the world was my oyster. I already had a clear objective of working in international strategy. Audencia turned out to be the ideal school to fulfil my thirst for knowledge and international dreams.
Socially however, I tried but never really managed to acquire the social codes, so I didn’t blend in and that was hard. I didn’t need a wheelchair back then, but I discreetly leaned on tables when my legs felt weak. My hearing was getting worse and there were gaps in my notes, but I never plucked up the courage to ask teachers and students to repeat themselves. I was a mute observer, stuck in a bubble. My inability to open up about my issues exacerbated my isolation. I still vividly remember one of the most traumatic days of those years. As always, I was sitting in the first row and intensely staring at the teacher so I could lip read. He must have confused my attitude with insolence, and in front of everyone, he asked me to stop. I felt exposed and ashamed but it was very much my own fault for not speaking out.

What was the turning point when you came out of your shell?

I had signed up to meet with recruiters at one of the fairs organised by the school and, thinking how important it was to be transparent with a potential employer, for once, I found the courage to talk about my disabilities. The feedback was bitingly dismissive: “You are young, you want to work in the male-dominated sector of strategy and you are aiming for international positions; how can you achieve this when you have trouble moving about and you struggle to understand people?! Unless you change your career plan, I can promise you 25 years of unemployment.” This was a huge slap in the face but also a powerful motivation to do something about my situation. I cried my eyes out until I realised that I hadn’t come all this way for nothing. I was determined to be even more convincing and gather more skills and knowledge.
Don’t get me wrong, there are still evenings when I cry after a physically and emotionally draining day. But the idea of rising up and giving things my best shot keep me going. I can’t afford to waste time standing still.

Did the first steps of your international career stand up to your expectations?

I had a blast! When I was just 21, the British IT company I was working for sent me to the CES in Las Vegas, the Mecca for tech. I had never done any public speaking, not even at school, and here I was on stage, facing 600 attendees. When I realised that none of them knew anything about me, I felt totally at ease, liberated and exhilarated. I soon took on more responsibilities and regions to manage. My role consisted in helping large foreign corporations penetrate and grow in the French market. My added value was to accompany them with intercultural management, helping their global teams to identify subconscious bias and work in better harmony. Fighting discriminations – whether against disabled workers, women in tech, or women founders, has been a red thread throughout my career. Sadly, 30 years on, we are still working through the same issues.
I later joined a large consulting firm, but there was no participative management, and the clients ended up leaving our strategy reports to die in a drawer. I realised I needed to put people at the centre of the strategy, and I launched my own international consulting company.

How did you handle the logistics of your business trips?

As much as I wanted this lifestyle to work for me, I ended up having to accept that travelling was physically and emotionally exhausting. Taxi drivers would drop me at the airport with my wheelchair and probably expected me to carry my suitcase between my teeth. When I attended professional fairs, I wasted a stupid amount of time trying to locate doors that I could open. Often, after a 6-hour trip, I would check into a certified wheelchair-accessible hotel, only to find myself stuck in front of a lift too narrow for my wheelchair. Frustratingly, there wasn’t a one-stop shop to help me with my planning needs.

Is this what led you to launch Handiroad?

Surprisingly, despite experiencing them first-hand, I didn’t realise straight away that I was bound to work on disability issues. The lightbulb moment actually came from my 5-year-old son, as he struggled to push my wheelchair across the pavement. It was physically challenging for him, he was fed up and he snapped: “Why don’t they make a Waze app for disabled people?”
I thought the idea was smart but I was a busy single working mum and I had already launched an incubator for startups interested in export. However, when I questioned my network, the feedback I received was overwhelmingly encouraging. The concept would serve my personal needs as well as those of the 25 million people facing mobility challenges in France from the disabled to the elderly but also parents with buggies for example… The Covid-19 lockdown period opened up people’s eyes about the stress induced by the lack of mobility. It affects our access to employment, health, entertainment… I realised that the concept was strategically innovative and that it would allow me to channel my passion for equality.

Can you pitch Handiroad for us?

It’s an app that makes moving about easier and safer for people with reduced mobility. In order to develop it at scale and in a cost-efficient way, I grew a community of users and I speculated on their kindness. Users help each other out by locating and warning about physical obstacles as well as aggressive behaviour they have been victims of. The four core values are kindness, equality, the power of sharing and joy. Joy is often underappreciated, yet it can be life transformative. I witness it every day, for example when grandparents can finally meet their grandchildren regularly.
“Universal Design” – a theory that aims for tools to be built by all and for all, is essential to my proposition. My consulting firm’s tagline was “make the world accessible to all”, which referred to the opportunity to expand to international markets. It also worked for Handiroad, so I kept it.

What gives you a sense of purpose?

I don’t sell glamour. I sell disability, suffering and stress. Yet I feel that by addressing these issues I can create hope. This is why I always jump at the opportunity whenever I am asked to speak in public. No one uttered a word at the last talk I gave but the following day I received 6,000 messages from people telling me they found me both inspiring and too intimidating to approach … the latter I find quite baffling!

From an external point of view, it seems that our society has become much more tolerant, especially in the workplace. What is your perspective?

Fortunately, the word disability is no longer taboo in the corporate world, even though we are still in an educational phase. Action is required now because I can assure you that there is still a lot of discrimination – enough to fill a book, or two!
When a disabled person is lucky enough to find a job, the role is often disheartening and ill adapted. I was once offered a telemarketing job selling mobile phone contracts – with my hearing impairment!
Moreover, the violence against us in the workplace is still real. Ten days ago, I was in a meeting with someone who wasn’t aware of my situation. I occasionally stand but as the meeting dragged on, someone in the room, who knew me, handed me a chair and explained to the guy: “She is disabled and it can be tough for her”. His reaction was “When you are a woman, and disabled, you don’t take on a job with responsibilities, you stay at home!” Comments like this can make you feel worthless but what was worse was the fact that no one else in the meeting spoke out. Sometimes these remarks are meant to be compliments “You know what? You’re actually quite smart!”
Being disabled and a woman is a double penance; in order to optimise my chances of raising funds, I have been advised on countless occasions to recruit a man as a business partner, “and if possible, a valid one”!
Four out of five women with disabilities are victims of violence in their daily life – whether physical, emotional, sexual, financial or professional. This injustice is close to my heart. So you see, dealing with other people’s attitudes is even more difficult than carrying the disease itself. I am lucky that I can now rely emotionally on a supportive network, but even then, it can get to you.

What would be your key messages to the Audencia community? How can we be better allies?

First, I want to encourage students who feel different to be brave enough to open up. You will be amazed how it will lift a weight from your shoulders, and how much more qualitative your conversations will become. On a practical level, I would like to make the teaching staff aware that with the multiplication of online events, subtitles are crucial. To alumni who are in hiring positions, I would say that when you receive a job application from someone with a disability, you should also see their potential for adaptability and innovation. When a new hire asks for specific modifications to their work environment and equipment, remember that they are not being fussy but that they have genuine needs.
People in HR should consider setting up inclusion workshops. I designed one for my clients where everyone is asked to work with a handicap for a day (blindfolded, with noise cancelling headphones, in a wheelchair…). This is a surprisingly cost-efficient way of creating awareness, promoting kindness and bringing a team together.

So what made you decide to become a baker?

It was a personal and professional business strategy as well as the lack of market supply. A combination of all of these, I think.

First, I’ve always been an early riser, so you could say I’m predisposed to baking. However, it was mainly when I realised how good bread was so hard to find in New York that I thought about training and going for it.

I wanted to do the Compagnons du Devoir but I was too old. So I looked at the French Culinary Institute in New York. They have a big programme for pastry and another for cooking. They also have a less well-known bread programme, which is very hands-on and in line with my needs and expectations. Above all, it was intensive: in ten weeks, you learn all about French baking techniques, bread but also viennoiseries and everything that uses leavened dough.

That’s all I use today at L’Imprimerie. We’re very transparent with our customers: we have this very authentic side that ties in well with my French origins, the tastes that I loved when I was a kid and that I share today, so yes, we’re the French Bakery of the neighbourhood and we offer what our customers expect to find in a French bakery.

However, since we’re in New York, we’re free to introduce a few little twists because we have a wide community that goes beyond our French customers. We do chocolate with jalapenos, cinnamon rolls with croissant dough. You could say we have something of a Dolly Parton aesthetic: a bit cheap, but very, very authentic.

Is artisanship in your DNA?

Being a baker is probably more important to me than being French, even if I am what I am. I can handle that and I play on my origins, that’s for sure. Nevertheless, what interests me is to be true and honest and make my business work.

We have a quality approach: each morning, everything is freshly prepared by us and cooked on the spot. I don’t see the point of making a strawberry tart out of season just to make our offer more French. This is not our promise.

I offer a different vision of food in my neighbourhood, this idea of slow food and high quality. But also a presence and a place to live in the heart of the community. I’m neither a co-op nor a neighbourhood association, but during COVID-19, for example, we were there every day and for many people we were a landmark.

Our customers are hipsters, Bobos, guys who work in the City, but also people of more modest means, who work at the hospital just down the street. The idea of quality food should not be the reserve of just a few. I’m trying to develop a business that is sustainable, i.e., economically viable, but that fits in well with its community. I pay my staff on time and my suppliers too. But make no mistake, we work hard, we don’t bunk off.

Being a baker is a tough job in a difficult context

Yes, it’s clearly a difficult job.

During the pandemic, a lot of people started making bread at home. And that’s great because it did them a lot of good, especially for their wellbeing. The kneading itself is quite a meditative experience and then there’s the smell of the dough, the contact, the texture. Frankly, bringing a loaf of bread to life is an incredible sensation.

However, there is a huge difference between fantasising about changing jobs while you’re making your bread at home and actually doing it. The reality of the job is that you have to be there every day, every night, preparing your recipes, shaping your breads, baking them, etc. You carry heavy bags, you stay in the kitchen andit’s hard work. When you are standing all day, you get this feeling of producing, producing, without looking up, even in a craft environment. Some people find it too hard in the end.

Our job is a physical, technical and scientific one because dough is a living material.  Depending on the heat, the cold, the hygrometry, it doesn’t react in the same way and you have to adapt.

And of course, being a baker also means being a company director, with all the different hats that you have to wear in today’s world: communicating, selling, managing, recruiting. So yes, you have to keep your feet on the ground. Because I haven’t been a baker all my life,  I often feel like an imposter compared to other bakers. However, I think that I may be a little ahead of the game when it comes to managing a business. Having had a previous career has turned out to be very helpful.

You also have a bit of a militant side, don’t you?

No! I’m not here to give lessons to anyone. Not about bread, not about anything. When we launched L’Imprimerie, we could have made a big fuss in the press, made ourselves known in the City, played that card, but I didn’t feel justified going down that route. I’m not one of those bakers who’s been in the business forever, because I didn’t take a specific trade qualification like all the others, and maybe also because today I use my American passport more than my French one.

So yes, there are things that make us happy, like when we were voted best pain au chocolat in New York: we feel that people recognise that we do the job properly. But that’s where it ends. There’s only one thing I want to do and that’s my job, properly!

I want to be at the heart of people’s lives, to create this place where they are happy to come, where they feel good. I want them to recognise us for the quality of what we sell them. Our customers decide what label they put on us.

Do they call us the neighbourhood’s super French bakery or the super queer bakery? That’s fine, just as long as we can see the word “super” in front. I’m not an activist, I’m here to keep my customers coming and coming back, to pay my bills at the end of the month, and to have fun in what I do every day.

Tell us about your first steps in the professional world

Once I graduated, I got a job in Bangalore in the southern India, as a quality analyst for Sapient, an American company now part of Publicis. My role – at the crossroads between operations and technology, consisted in testing the quality of the software that we were building for different banks and hedge funds. I had always had my eyes on a master’s so after 3 years there I left. I realised that I wanted to know how supply chain and operations worked end to end, as opposed to specialising in one particular sector. In 2015, I applied for Audencia’s Master in Supply Chain and Purchasing Management. The dual degree programme in partnership with Politecnico di Milano made it particularly appealing.

Joining the programme in Nantes must have been another daunting step?

Moving countries at 18 had already made me feel like I had crossed a mountain so this intercontinental move was a little less overwhelming. Making new connections was not the most difficult part. No, it was… getting accustomed to the foreign cuisine. I mean… the uncooked sea food… and don’t get me started on snails! But hey, just like everything else, with an open mind and a dose of courage, you adapt. I loved the interactivity of the lessons, and the project-based group work. There was a bar by the river in Nantes, which became our hangout. By the time the whole class moved to Milan, we had become close, and we had so much fun. As for Italian food… for me it definitely beats French cuisine. No offense! (laugh). Our Whatsapp group is still alive and we have regular video chats. That felt particularly comforting during lockdown.

Tell us about your experience at Nissan’s European headquarters in Paris

I secured an internship in Paris and managed to convert it into a permanent job. It was exactly what I had hoped and more As a supply chain project officer, I gained both business acumen and tech skills. Later, I moved into a reporting role preparing analyses to improve sales decisions. This gave me valuable exposure to senior management. I enjoyed the corporate culture there. Its diversity and mixture of nationalities reminded me of the atmosphere at Audencia. It was a male-dominated environment, but female employees felt empowered. I certainly never felt that I was treated unequally.

Why did you move to Germany?

I had been there a few times to visit my brother who was living there at the time, and I had fallen in love with the country. I was fascinated by this sense that every system is efficiently run. I wanted to experience this way of living from the inside, as a daily user. And also my boyfriend – now husband – was living there.

How did you end up with a boyfriend in another country?

He is Nepalese; we went to the same school back in my hometown. He is just one year older than me and we have known each other for twenty years. Our paths crossed again in India when we both got scholarships to the same university. After he graduated, he moved to Mumbai to study a master’s in computer science. He is a pure tech guy. I moved to Bangalore then Nantes before we reunited for good in Germany. We survived the long-term long-distance relationship.

Flixbus has an inspiring vision of making sustainable travel both comfortable and affordable. What does your role there entail?

I made a conscious decision to join a smaller, agile company, where I could apply what I had learned at Nissan and gain more ownership and freedom. I have been at Flixbus for 6 months and I am really enjoying it so far. The company has a unique concept, combining tech and transportation and it has propelled the bus industry into the digital era. As a project manager and senior business analyst, my job is to optimise all the processes, products and tools that we launch for our operations teams and partners. Ultimately, I help to add growth for the company and improve mobility for our users. Flixbus has recently acquired Greyhound, which is the biggest and oldest bus company in the US and we have gone live in Brazil this month. It’s exciting to know that we are touching all continents.
I admire how the company lives and breathes its corporate values and first and foremost its attachment to sustainability. It is such a warm feeling at the end of a long day to know that you bring a positive contribution to the world.

What is the most gratifying aspect of your role?

I have the opportunity of making an impact and coming out proud, which is exactly what I always look for in a job. Through all this daily data crunching, reports writing, and project greenlighting, I am improving the customer experience of our passengers and co-workers. I launch systems that are used by a lot of people and are making their work and life easier. I can see myself staying with Flixbus for a while.

Does your inclination for tidiness and optimisation also transpire into your daily personal life?

I like to keep my home space and my finances neat and organised indeed. My personal “COVID lockdown project” was creating an Excel finance dashboard. I realise it’s not everybody’s idea of entertainment, but it gave me a sense of joy and accomplishment! I am also a planner when it comes to my personal goals: I write them down every year, come up with an action plan and a project list, and review them regularly. The end of year is a period of deep introspection for me. I am not particularly passionate or impulsive, so whenever I have an important choice, such as a career move, I always research thoroughly. However, once my mind is set on a goal, I am decisive and consciously dedicate all my energy towards it with the intention to come out as a winner.

Please tell me that you don’t spend all your free time on Excel?!

Ha, ha, no, far from it. I like to paint. And I collect board games. My current favourites are Azul, Patchwork and Ticket to ride. I also enjoy a good game of poker. Not surprisingly, I enjoy mostly strategy and planning games (laugh)! I am openly competitive, and I hate losing!
I am also an avid reader of personal development books. I am influenced by the wisdom of Eckhart Tolle, and the teachings of Joe Dispenza on our ability to free ourselves from limitations. I enjoyed “The Four Agreements” by Don Miguel Ruiz; it’s a “practical guide to freedom” that has stayed with me.

Your favourite activity in Berlin?

I enjoy strolling around in East Berlin, which is packed with historical landmarks. I am not an expert in the Second World War, but I can’t help but feeling moved by what I see. I also like the feel-good atmosphere of the Weissensee Lake, and the East Side Gallery: once the Berlin Wall and now the longest open-air gallery in the world.

Looking back … Do you think you have achieved success?

For me success is a process and I want my life to be a constant learning curve. I fear that If I ever consider myself successful, I will take my accomplishments for granted and see the curve slow down.

Your professional and life accomplishments must make your parents very proud of you

Yes, I think they are proud of me. And of my brother too – he has a PhD in strategic management and is doing a post doctorate at ETH Zurich. But it’s not my parents’ culture to express it to us very often. What they would say is that they feel at peace with the way they have raised me, and the place that I have secured for myself in the world. Even though they could safely retire and finally enjoy life, they can’t imagine a life without working. I haven’t seen them much since I left home. I last saw them for our wedding.

Where do you see yourself in 10 years’ time?

I hope that I will have grown. For me it’s not a question of promotion, job title or salary. It’s about self-development and my ability to constantly increase the scale of the impact that I am creating. This goal might lead me back to Nepal, where I can see myself as an entrepreneur. I would use my expertise in launching high quality operations projects and focus on accelerating the digital transformation of the country. Again, if I make that step, it will be a thoroughly researched and analysed decision!

What options did you choose at Audencia?

In my first year, I chose the sustainability track with specialised classes on sustainable economics and micro-credit, for example, and I dived into it with a passion. I chose finance as a major – to me, the most challenging choice but also one that would equip me with the skills that would be trickier to acquire later on the job. I did a one-year work placement with KPMG in Toulouse, during which I audited banks and industrial firms. It encouraged me to study a double major audit and corporate finance.

What were the highlights of your time at Audencia?

Throughout my first year, we worked on a project for an organic Mexican fair-trade coffee brand that aimed to export to Europe. I was by far the most enthusiastic member of my working group and I was the only one to speak Spanish fluently. So, I got to travel to Mexico for 2 weeks, visiting the cooperative, the trading port in Vera Cruz, and setting up all the costs. What an incredible experience when I think back about it!
I joined “Access Sud”, the micro-credit club. It was gratifying to be part of a community of students who were motivated by the same interests and values. The issues we were trying to tackle really awoke something in me. I must also mention the parties that were a great way to build up my social skills!

Did you ever feel self-conscious about your background?

When I first visited Audencia for the entrance exams, everyone I met was very friendly and I immediately felt at home. It felt a bit like landing in a fairytale world! My social background has never been an issue because I have always been comfortable and even proud of my roots. I know what my family values are and the hard work it takes to earn money when you don’t start out with much.
But yes, there were a few individuals who drew attention to what made me different. Some asserted that I would never get a job in Paris with my strong southern accent. When we attended the first Audencia party in Paris, others were shocked when I admitted that it was my first time in the capital. I just decided to leave the comments slide and to adopt a “we shall see” attitude. I knew that with resilience, I could build a path that would reveal my true personality, regardless of my background. These were isolated incidents and what I remember best is the school’s capacity to connect us with people from other horizons.

We noticed on your CV that you worked briefly as a flight attendant… tell us more, we’re intrigued!

I needed to earn some money during my last year at Audencia. Believe or not, I spotted the ad for an Air France flight attendant on the school’s job board. They need to fill these jobs every year, so I would encourage every student who fancies being paid to travel to check it out! I criss-crossed the globe and even got to sit in the cockpit during take-off and landing. Air France offered me a permanent position but I was wise enough to understand the value that an Audencia diploma represented. Besides, my true dream was to be in the pilot’s seat…

How did you land in Brazil, when you didn’t even speak the language?

After graduating, I did a 6-month contract in the internal audit department of Lagardere in Paris before returning to KPMG. Three years later, I realised that I didn’t want to stay in a company for a couple of weeks to simply assess the risks and deliver certifications. As a doer myself, I was itching to make an impact in a particular sector, be part of a team and implement a strategy.

From the age of 18, I dreamed of working in Latin America, especially after all the Spanish lessons I had during my preparatory classes. At 26, I decided it was time. The only paid job that I found was in Sao Paolo and I accepted a pay cut, but I figured that the opportunity was worth it. As LatAm financial controller for JC Decaux, I was in charge of branches in Brazil, Mexico and the Dominican Republic. 3 months after I joined, my boss resigned, so I quickly took on greater responsibilities… and learnt Portuguese! At first, I was talking “Portuñol” but after 3 months of lunchtime tuition and interacting with my flatmates, I experienced a sort of light bulb moment and I separated the two languages. It goes to show that with a good dose of determination, a foreign language isn’t a barrier to career progression.

What motivated your move to Chile?

In 2017, after deciding the corporate culture wasn’t me, I resigned and went travelling. My plan was to go backpack round Latin America for six months. Just a few weeks in, my manager from KPMG contacted me to say that there was an opportunity for me in Chile at NewRest, a catering company whose headquarters are in Toulouse. In between excursions, I logged in from various youth hostels and internet cafés in Colombia and Ecuador, and, after a long series of interviews, I got the job of Financial Director. I love how life can throw the best surprises at you. I wasn’t looking to move to Chile, and I wasn’t even looking for a job at the time… let alone this amazing opportunity for someone of my age!
I discovered the easy-going expat lifestyle, complete with company car, apartment and social connections. But I was working crazy hours as I had so much to learn and was managing 4 people in their 50’s who were not driven by the sort of motivation that I had taken for granted at KPMG. I stayed there for 3 years.

CFO at Airbus sounds like a huge step up. How did you manage to land such a senior role?

In June 2020, in the middle of a strict lockdown in Santiago, and the unsettling context of mass redundancy at the catering firm I was working at, I received a call from one of my ex-managers who encouraged me to apply for a CFO role at Airbus. If I have learnt one thing, it’s that it clearly helps to cultivate great relationships with your ex bosses! The Managing Director of the Chile branch was looking for someone based in Santiago to report to him as well as the LatAm CFO. The role entailed overseeing teams in Chile, Argentina and Uruguay as well as the client portfolio across the whole “ConSur”. The turnover was much larger than anything I had ever managed before. The challenges were exciting, having to negotiate contracts with governmental institutions and VIP clients.

I knew I would need broad shoulders, but reminded myself that I already had an experience in a senior role that I could leverage. So I decided to go for it and entered a 2 month-long recruitment process during which I had 5 interviews with 5 different people. During one of the interviews I had to deal with a few snarky comments, such as “We sell helicopters… not sure you know anything about those?!” Perhaps the interviewer was biased against my age, gender or the fact that I didn’t have any professional experience in aeronautics. But I didn’t let the questions stump me. I argued that in finance you don’t need to be have technical product expertise… but as it turned out, I happened to cultivate a passion for the sector, with a lifelong dream of becoming a pilot!
This seems to have done the trick and in 2020, I joined Airbus.

What’s a typical working day for you?

The tasks are too varied to fit into a daily template. Essentially, I try to prioritise making myself available for the team of 12 people that I manage. There’s a tendency to get wrapped up in Airbus meetings with my branch directors, my counterparts in other branches or colleagues from head office to discuss strategic projects such as regionalising the business which will result in moving functions to LatAm.
I have learnt to carve out time for myself to progress on my projects when I have realised that others’ priorities are not necessarily mine. Otherwise, I would be stuck in meetings until 6pm… and I confess that my vision is not to work until midnight!

Are you as organised in your personal life?

I wish! The day that I found myself stuck in Lima unable to pay for my hotel room or the bus because I had forgotten to activate my credit card … I realised how chaotically I can let my life run! Fortunately, the Peruvian friend of a friend generously lent me some money and saved my trip. I laugh now at the irony of how powerless a CFO feels with no access to a means of payment!

Which country would you recommend relocating to – Brazil or Chile?

I loved my time in Brazil because there I found everything that I imagined Latin American culture to be: music and dance everywhere, and the special warmth and joie de vivre of the people. In that respect, moving to Chile was a culture shock because I harboured the same expectations. In Santiago in particular, people are quite closed-off, far from the typical image of Latino. However, they are also the most loyal friends you could ever wish to have, once you have gained their trust. Here, when people invite you at their home, they introduce you to their family; that’s an honour. The attitude is closer to what we see in Europe… with the added benefit of an amazing living environment. It is safe enough that I can walk the streets at night. Being such a long country, it is a land of contrasts, with the Atakama in the North – the world’s most arid desert, a string of fjords and snow-capped volcanoes, and the glacier-carved lakes of Patagonia in the South. I have never seen anything like it. Chile gets my vote!

Have you given up on your flying dreams?

Never! My office is located on an aerodrome with a flying club. A year ago, I started taking flying lessons three times a week, from 7 to 10pm. I’ve been learning about aircraft aerodynamics and how the engine works. I’ve passed the theory, and I am now working on the practice. I have 22 hours of flying under my belt, and I need 40-60 hours to get my licence. So just a few more hours before I can fulfil my childhood dream!
I now realise that on commercial flights, you don’t actually pilot the plane that much. I get much more joy from flying in a small 2 person aircraft. You get to be responsible for all aspects of the flight. We don’t train on simulators, but we are thrown straight into a real cockpit. Last time my instructor simulated an emergency situation and turned off the engine to test my reaction. That was fun!
I always walk back on the tarmac with a huge smile on my face. I am proud that for the first time I have managed to be disciplined enough to carve out time for an activity that makes my life so fulfilling.

I am also fortunate, because even though it’s not going not going to help us win contracts, my boss encourages all employees to embrace their passion for aviation, in whatever form.

It sounds like you have achieved your main life goals already. What’s next for you?

This year will be decisive. I will either stay in a CFO role, possibly in another country. Or I might move on to an operational or sales role, which interest me as well. I confess that I would love to go travelling again… but I can’t be too greedy. For now, I am looking forward to getting my pilot licence and show my boyfriend, friends and family the stunning views of my adopted country, from above.

What do you think was your first real exploration?

It was in 2001. My coverage of the Charles de Gaulle aircraft carrier had gone badly; I was on the verge of quitting the Navy when I was given the chance to join a ship on its way to Clipperton, an isolated French atoll in the North East Pacific. I managed to get aboard ship as it passed through the Panama Canal. When we approached Clipperton, I found myself facing the mysterious island I had dreamed of and fantasised about in my reading. Nevertheless, frustrations bubbled to the surface as the boat only stayed there for three days, enough time for the army to restore the marks of French sovereignty and to make an inventory of the crabs, birds and coconut trees. I counted them myself; there were exactly 387 at the time!
Three days is not very long, I wanted to stay there for two months! However, this first report enabled me to scout for my second trip to Clipperton, which led to my first documentary for Thalassa, a legendary TV programme that I filmed in 2003 with the renowned polar explorer Jean-Louis Etienne as my main character. In 2015, I returned to Clipperton, with an international expedition and was how the atoll had changed. Rats had replaced the crabs and the beaches looked very different due to erosion and rising sea levels…. Proof that Clipperton is a French sentinel in the middle of the ocean.

To come back to solitude, is it an inevitable part of being an explorer?

Yes, partly. I dream of being Robinson Crusoe alone on a deserted island like Clipperton. Solitude means you have to face yourself, with your qualities and faults. When I cycled through France for my project La France Réenchantée, I had long moments of solitude, but if you’re not afraid to embrace it, solitude can make you feel alive and put you in touch with the precious things in life. Similarly, I have sometimes found myself alone in corners of the Arctic. The relationship with nature is very powerful, both majestic and terrifying. From a very reassuring blue sky, all of a sudden, the wind starts to blow, you are cold, you can’t take shelter, the ice is thin and threatens to give way under your weight… You find yourself face to face with yourself, which makes you both fragile and strong. The link between life and death becomes tangible, immediate, reminding us of that very fine line that we so easily forget in today’s consumer society.

People say you are an explorer; do you accept the description?

I don’t know if I can call myself an explorer. My daughter Joséphine always tells me that she doesn’t know what to put in the boxes when asked about my profession. Author, writer, director, explorer? In my opinion, many explorers are real scientists, archaeologists, oceanographers… Others are more sporting or heroic, like Mike Horn. As far as I am concerned, I explore to share stories and transmission is important to me; my parents were teachers… I like to turn on the light and say that everything is possible. So I am also a transmitter, a storyteller, who makes films, documentaries, books… I also work for the press, Historia, Terre Sauvage, Figaro magazine, Géo and Détours en France.
When I was asked to join the Society of Explorers, of which I have been Secretary General since 2015, I hesitated for a long time. For me, explorers are Paul-Émile Victor, Théodore Monod… I accepted because the question remains open. We have real debates about the differences between an explorer, an adventurer and a traveller… I am a traveller when I go to Venice with my wife for the weekend. An adventurer takes risks and expects the unexpected. Explorers are not necessarily carrying out something useful, instead making a beautiful promise made to society. Uselessness takes on its full meaning when it is shared, hence my need to tell and transmit.

Who has inspired your calling for exploring?

There are so many! Paul-Émile Victor of course, especially as I’m his biographer. Then there’s Jean-Baptiste Charcot, scientist, medical doctor and polar scientist, himself a mentor to Paul-Émile Victor. The fascinating Philippe de Dieuleveult, who inspired a whole generation with his TV programme La Chasse au Trésor (The Treasure Hunt) in the 1980s, who disappeared in the Zambezi Falls and whom we later learnt was an agent of the DGSE (French intelligence service)… The writer and novelist Joseph Kessel, of course, whose books I devoured. There are also the fictional figures, like Indiana Jones, who shaped my desire and need for adventure.

You pay particular attention to the world and the people who inhabit it. Are you empathetic?

When I first started out, I travelled a lot to soak up exotic and unexpected experiences, but I soon needed something else. I wanted to understand the planet and the people who live on it; perhaps this is empathy. In any case, I try to give some of my time and energy to humanitarian causes. I’ve been quite involved in the NGO Aviation Sans Frontières and have written a book for them. I have been on the ground with them and have accompanied sick children to Burundi…

I also try to get involved in these causes through the Explorers’ Society. We will soon be hosting a director who has followed a migrant artist on his journey across the Mediterranean. There will be volunteers from SOS Méditerranée who will tell their stories of the people who are ready to take any risk to cross the sea. It is another form of exploration, so much more risky than the one I, as a westerner, accomplish.

The shelves in your office are groaning with books. Can you share some of the titles with us?

Just behind me is a shelf of graphic novels; I’m crazy about comics, especially adventure comics. If I had to choose just one, it would be R97, les hommes à terre by Bernard Giraudeau and my friend Christian Cailleaux. It tells the story of the sailors on board the Jeanne d’Arc, the French Navy’s ship. I also have many reference books on exploration. I would mention Michel le Bris, the creator of the Étonnants Voyageurs festival, and his Dictionnaire amoureux des explorateurs, and then of course L’Usage du monde by the Swiss travel writer Nicolas Bouvier. At the top, there is the complete collection of Joseph Kessel’s works, alongside works by Alexandra David-Neel, Robert Capa and many others. There is a pile of novels waiting to be read, and, dare I say, a shelf with the fifteen or so books I have written myself.

Can you tell us about your next adventures?

I’m a bit superstitious about this; I don’t like to talk about projects that I haven’t signed up for yet. However, I am definitely going to be travelling through the canals of Patagonia and along the Antarctic Peninsula as a guest speaker of a tour operator. I would also like to start writing screenplays, fiction for comics and, ultimately, for film. The Société des Gens de Lettres has just accepted me on a course I have been yearning to do for a long time. I have written about fifteen books, atlases, illustrated books, surveys, a biography…. and I have the impression that in terms of publishing I have more or less done the rounds. I think it’s time to move on to stories that are a little more universal, and even some fiction.

What advice would you give to Audencia students who want to follow in your footsteps?

First of all, I would advise them not to set limits for themselves. I would tell them that everything is possible, that utopia is a nice word. To quote Theodor Monod “Utopia is not the unattainable but the unrealised”. I think I’ve taken the utopian route. I believe that if you have a dream you can go for it as long as you try to align what you have in your head – this intellect with which you make your dreams – with two things: your own eyes, which are not yet very sharp when you leave your studies, and your heart and guts.
However, you should never lose sight of the fact that being an explorer looks great on paper but is very vague in terms of a career and not very lucrative! Personally, I accept this freedom, which means that some months you struggle to make ends meet while others are more comfortable. It’s part of the deal and you have to know that before you start. At the beginning of my career, Jean-Louis Etienne said to me: “You’ll see, if you want to do this job, the main thing is to last the journey”. In other words, you can make a few hits, do some great exploring followed by a beautiful book; it’s hard not to get carried away, but it can all stop as quickly as it started.

What did you do last weekend? And what will you be doing next weekend?

On Saturday I worked, because you can’t always count the hours needed to get a job done. In the evening, I watched Black Hearts, with my family, a series about the Special Forces in Iraq. On Sunday, I went for a three-hour ride on a gravel bike in the Bois de Boulogne – I need nature and chlorophyll. My wife and I are also planning to go to the cinema and see an exhibition. If you’re going to live in Paris, you might as well let yourself enjoy life in the capital, which has so many treasures.

How did you climb the steps at Citi?

For me it’s always been about seizing opportunities as they present themselves. As the expiry date on my student visa got closer, I tried to remain philosophical about the dozens and dozens of internship applications and rejections. I set myself a deadline and decided that if I hadn’t secured an internship two weeks beforehand, I would pack up and go travelling. On the day I was getting ready to pack my suitcase, my luck turned and I received an offer from Citi.

In 2011, I joined one of the bank’s branches in Paris, close to the Champs Elysées for a one-year internship that was later converted into a permanent role. I started in the trade and treasury solutions department, and my job involved going through export documentation and finding financial solutions for exporting from France. After being promoted to trade sales associate, I got to work with a broader selection of products such as supply finances, letters of credit and guarantees. My clients were using our services to ensure that the risk associated with the transactions in terms of documentation and payment was covered for both parties. Suppliers and buyers relied on me to make their interactions easier. My job was client-oriented from the start, and my manager, a great mentor, encouraged me to learn on the job.

Did you go on an Amélie pilgrimage to Montmartre when you arrived in Paris?

You may laugh but this is exactly what I did on my very first day! When I lived in Paris, I spent so much time in this quaint neighbourhood. As I said, I love swimming as it has a sort of meditative effect on me, so another way I spent my free time was to try out as many swimming pools as I could find… and there are lots! I was on a sort of mission, or “swimming pool crawl” (laugh). My top pick is the Molitor; I love its avant-garde atmosphere.

Why did you decide to move to Dublin?

In 2014, employees with a bit of trade experience and language skills were encouraged to apply for a position that had opened there. It was a promotion and, with Dublin being on of Citi’s biggest European hubs, it would give me exposure. Frankly, after only three years in France, it had not crossed my mind to relocate, but the opportunity was too good to miss. I accepted the offer without having ever set a foot in Ireland. I didn’t know a soul there, and the only taste for the Irish life I had was through the fun and colourful tales of former Irish colleagues. I packed my suitcase and went!

What does your current role entail?

My remit grew when I took charge of all European clients and started to control a larger scope of products. I am now Assistant Vice President, or AVP, and I work with another area of trade, which is supply chain finance. I engage with my clients’ suppliers who want to participate in our programme. It helps them receive early payment and improve their cash flow. Recently I have also started managing our documentation team who helps with onboarding clients. It’s a team of 8, based in India, with a varied skillset. Some of them have been in supply finance for longer than I have and it has been a rewarding experience so far.

What makes it exciting to work in your sector?

It’s a dynamic sector with ever-changing legislation so trying to keep up makes it an exciting challenge. It suits people who get a kick out of working in a multicultural environment and across different time zones. It also feels good to know that my work leads to practical applications for end users as we enable the trade of thousands of everyday goods.

What are your predictions for the global supply chain?

Clients ask me this question a lot and it’s a tough one! I think that following the pandemic, trade will move from a crisis mode to a more normal mode of operating. 2022 was the year when we learnt some lessons from the chaos we faced, and we will accept that some processes will never return to the pre-pandemic times. Still, silver linings such as the possibility of working from home emerged in the aftermath of the pandemic.

What is the corporate culture like in Dublin? Do people still hit the pub at 5pm every day?

Not every day… but most days! In Paris, social interactions between colleagues amounted to the occasional “after work apéro en terrasse”. In Dublin, workers routinely finish their day in the pub. The camaraderie of the Irish workplace makes it easier to make friends and pubs help this, mixing people of all generations and backgrounds, finding it an easy way to share their life stories over a pint… or two.

What is it like being a Colombian in Dublin?

There aren’t many Colombians here. Until recently, we didn’t have access to an embassy, but only a consulate that we could reach once a year. The European media mainly tends to portray Colombia through the lens of its criminality issues and sadly, negative stereotypes still persist and can be exhausting to address. However, references that are more positive are now emerging. People’s curiosity about my country can be amusing: I was once asked if I was related to Gloria from the Modern Family sitcom (I’m not), or how I cope with the weather in Ireland, even though Bogotá is in the coldest and rainiest region of Colombia, so getting used to Dublin’s meteorological conditions hasn’t been at all hard. In any case, as the saying goes here: “the weather here might be cold, but the people are warm”. I have always felt truly welcome here.

Do you feel settled in Dublin now?

It’s interesting that I have never felt so Colombian since living abroad. After 8 years in Ireland, this is home. I applied for and obtained Irish citizenship as a way of showing my gratitude for the opportunities that the country has given me. I also wanted to be able to participate in society and exercise my right to vote. Ireland has held various referendums lately, where citizens have expressed their wish for change on important societal issues such as divorce and abortion. It was inspiring to feel that I could contribute. It’s funny how life plays out: Ireland wasn’t on my radar until a few years ago, and now here I am, a proud Irish citizen! I hold dual citizenship because I will never forget my Colombian roots.

Can we please go back to your boyfriend claiming you are “uncool”?!

Well, he claims that I’m like someone in her seventies (laugh). I admit that I listen to classical music, I bake, I go for walks, I do my grocery shopping with a trolley like a granny. But I have adopted many local traditions, and popping down the pub for a good time is top of my list, so I can’t be that uncool! (laugh).

Any plans for the weekend?

Big plans! Tomorrow I’ll be flying to Colombia with my fiancé for Christmas. I haven’t been in over two years, and I am beyond excited despite the 20-hour flight. Christmas in my country is such a special time. Celebrations start from the 1st December! I am looking forward to some serious wedding planning talks and to watching the Encanto movie… multiple times!

So your time in India revealed your desire to be involved in the humanitarian sector

Absolutely. In fact, I have always been concerned with social justice and issues of peace and war in general. However, it was in India that I was first able to work in a structured way on social justice issues from a civil society perspective. After that, I applied for a job with the World Federalist Movement-Institute for Global Policy (WFM-IGP), a New York NGO. WFM-IGP is committed to the realisation of global peace and justice through the development of democratic institutions and the application of international law. I started out using technology for the communication purposes of the organization before getting involved in programmes, which clearly reinforced my calling to work in the humanitarian field.

I moved to the D.R. Congo to be the Country Director of the NGO War Child and my work shifted from human rights to humanitarian and development work, but of course, they are closely related. War Child’s mission is to provide support to children affected by conflict. In the D.R. Congo, I remained in the field of human rights, children’s rights to be more exact with practical programmes. For me, it was a great opportunity to work on projects that were making a real difference to people’s lives.

You have managed local War Child branches around the world. To what extent did you see suffering and how did you deal with it?

Suffering was certainly omnipresent and I saw it directly because I was living there. However, going sometimes without electricity or not having access to clean water are comparatively small hardships. You do observe true suffering and feel close to it but are not experiencing it directly. We are in these countries as foreigners and we work for organisations that have certain safety standards and take care of their teams. However, it is not unusual to be confronted with difficult security situations. I have been in some. In some countries, you are somehow close to the fighting that breaks out. You hear it and sometimes you see it. When I was in Afghanistan, the country was volatile and unstable. Some of our friends were killed. There were a lot of precautions to take. So you try to have mechanisms to deal with the pressure and the stress. For some people it’s doing sports for example. In D.R. Congo we could go swimming in the lake which was probably as safe a place as anywhere. That was not the case in Afghanistan, but we could still take a week off every now and then to get together with colleagues outside the country, to rest before coming back to our work. This was not the case for our local colleagues.

You changed countries several times. Is international mobility inherent to the humanitarian sector?

I spent almost three years in the D.R.Congo, two in Afghanistan and four in Colombia with War Child, then five years in Peru and two in Zambia for the NGO, Plan International before becoming CEO of War Child at the organisation’s headquarters in Amsterdam. It is common practice in the humanitarian sector to change countries often, at least for people who have careers in the field and who need to be close to the support programmes.

Contracts generally last between two and five years depending on the organisation and the security conditions of the country. This allows individuals to gain both personal and professional experience. The rotations allow organisations to bring in new ways of thinking and approaches to the field.

When you are in the field, you usually hear about upcoming opportunities before your contract ends. You can then express your interest to the NGO’s management, who will decide whether you are the right candidate when a new position and destination become available. Career development is based on opportunities and the match with your skills.

What made you decide to enrol in the EuroMBA programme?

Even though non-governmental organisations are not based on profit, their set-up is very similar to any other business. You have to generate income and develop products and services. You build teams, have a strategy and all the departments that any other company has. At War Child, we have a marketing department, for example. I’ve always thought it important to bring a business mentality and approach to the places I have worked. Doing an MBA helped me gain useful business skills. Most of the courses on the EuroMBA programme were taught remotely but we also spent a residential week in each of the participating schools of the consortium, including Audencia. I was in Afghanistan then and it was very intense, but I was able to devote time to coursework because it wasn’t like I had much of a social life there! Due to time and life constraints, I was late in handing in my dissertation, but I graduated – finally – in 2022.

What does your position as CEO of War Child mean in practice? What are your priorities?

We have been working on two major transformational and strategic changes for War Child. The first is to our structure where our guiding principle is to transform into becoming a network expert organisation. We want to move from a European-based organisation to a global, decentralised organisation where power will be shared between the different locations where we operate. Decentralising expertise, so to speak. This means giving more decision-making power to the local offices where the impact of our work is strongest. This transformation reflects an underlying trend in the humanitarian sector, where issues of equity and equality are prominent.

The second is to scale up our work and reach more children that need our services. War Child has developed real expertise in certain areas such as education, mental health, psychosocial support and the protection of children affected by conflict. Currently, our programmes have an impact on around 300,000 children per year, but according to the latest UN statistics, around 220 million children worldwide are affected by conflict. There is a big disparity between our impact and actual needs. To undergo this transformation, we need to develop more scientific, rigorous methodologies, not only to implement them in our own programmes but also to make them available to other organisations.

My main job as CEO is to drive the levers that will make these strategic priorities a reality. I have a great team pushing in the same direction and moving forward. Of course, we have to be realistic about the huge challenges we face because of the suffering of so many people in the world, but that doesn’t stop us from being optimistic that we can make an impact with War Child. My team and I are convinced of this.

How has War Child been able to respond to the needs of children in Ukraine?

Since the beginning of the war in Ukraine, more than 7 million children have had their lives – including their education – irreversibly disrupted. Displaced from their schools, homes and, in many cases, their country, children are experiencing unthinkable compounded learning loss; first from the COVID-19 pandemic and now from war.

In May 2022, the Ministry of Education and Science of Ukraine (MESU) and the largest education non-profit in Ukraine, Osvitoria, approached War Child Holland to find a solution to reach and teach mathematics and reading to some of their youngest learners – children in grades 1-4.

War Child Holland took on this challenge and began the process of rapidly adapting its already proven Education-in-Emergencies programme, Can’t Wait to Learn, to meet these new demands for greater scale. This required a re-programming of the app to make it available – for the first time – on personal IOS and Android devices, along with its standard practice of co-creation and curriculum alignment with the government. Each version of the app is also uniquely designed with local children, educators and artists to reflect the culture, language and look of the country to make the learning experience for children feel familiar as well as fun.

In addition we are working with local partners to provide mental health and psychosocial support in protected spaces for children. These methodologies have also been scientifically proven to reach positive outcome for children.

What are you most proud of at War Child?

I’m really proud of the direction we’ve taken at War Child and the fact that we’ve put two big transformational changes on track. Of course, we’re still a long way off, and I’ll be even prouder when we’ve achieved those two goals. After all, we could have just carried on working the way we already do, but instead, we’re taking a pretty bold path to challenge ourselves and make these transformations: sharing our power and looking at what it really takes to expand our impact and reach millions of children.

Do you have children of your own?

I have a stepdaughter who is 22 now. She was with us in Colombia and Peru before heading to France to become a pastry chef.

What and where would you like to be in ten years?

I must admit that I don’t look that far ahead. Professionally, my goal is to complete my task as CEO of War Child.

What are you going to do with your weekend?

This weekend is my partner’s birthday. One of the things we’re planning is to go and see an art exhibition that’s on in Amsterdam at the moment.

You said that you enjoy the backstage work of professors. Can you explain what this consists of?

There’s this idea that professors only work when they’re in a classroom with their students and that the rest of the time they don’t do much. This is not true, of course! I work much harder as a professor here in Cambridge than I did when I was working in finance in London (laughs).

Most of my time is taken up with resarch: collecting data, writing, editing and publishing research papers, supervising PhD students and post-docs. In theory, this represents more than 60% of my time. I also participate in four or five editorial boards of journals where I review papers and do some editing work.

I see research as a basis for engaging in the debates that are shaking up society. For me, research is not about producing concepts in an ivory tower but about asking questions that matter to people and producing ideas that find their way into managerial and societal practice. In the coming years, one of the topics I would very much like to have an impact on is the issue of mental health, from a skills perspective but also with regard to hybrid work, comparing remote and face-to-face.

Teaching is the other main part of my work, which I really enjoy. At Cambridge, we do a lot of tutoring, which gives me the opportunity to teach small groups of three or four students, with a very different relationship to the one you find in a lecture hall.

I teach courses at the faculty of business and the faculty of sociology. Each year I teach leadership and organisational behaviour to over 200 students on my MBA programme. The content is all extremely topical and changes constantly. In the past few years, I have totally adapted my course to the topics of the moment to include themes of hybrid work, silent quitting, Diversity & Inclusion issues, etc. After COVID-19, we rethought the whole teaching structure, keeping some courses online and promoting small agile groups on topical issues such as the Black Lives Matter movement or leadership biases.

Sector bias, gender bias, disability bias, ethnicity bias, etc., contribute to the funnel effect, i.e., the success of a Diversity & Inclusion policy at the bottom of the organisation but its failure at the top. I also do a lot of work on invisible stigma, such as invisible disability or sexual orientation, and how certain categories of people are exhausted by working on raising awareness, the ‘diversity work’ that is asked of them and the risks of burnout and performing badly.

Tell us about your experience at Audencia

It seems like ages ago but sometimes as if it was only yesterday. I think I’ve kept more in touch with the faculty than with my classmates but this is probably due to the career I’ve chosen.

When I wanted to pursue an academic career, I got in touch with a few alumni who had followed a similar route. I was impressed to see that several alumni are quite well known in this field. I am thinking of David Dubois, now Professor of Marketing at INSEAD, who gave me some great advice back then and Fabrice Lumineau, Professor of Strategy in Hong Kong.

As for most people, my student journey itself was a multi-faceted experience. I became who I am now in the classrooms of Audencia, which is undoubtedly why I have kept in touch with quite a few figureheads. I was also president of Réseaudencia Junior, the forerunner of the school’s young alumni association. However, there were also more complicated moments to handle, like losing the student campaign for the BDA (Bureau des Arts). I realise now that at the time it affected my relationship with the school. You don’t always realise how difficult it is for young people just out of preparatory classes to cope with things like that.

If I had to do it all again, I don’t think there’s much I would change. I really enjoyed my AIPM internship year and the international flavour of the school. I felt very French when I started Audencia, before discovering wider horizons during my studies.

My internship year nurtured my desire to live abroad but also to do things to the fullest. This I owe in part to an alum who worked on the desk that recruited me. He was instrumental in giving a chance to a student from the same school as him. The alumni network is one of the assets of this school.

Today, you still have close ties to Audencia

Yes I do; through my teaching activities and as an affiliate professor. At the beginning of my career, I used to come once a week to teach strategy. Now I don’t come as often but as an international affiliate faculty member, I still come over for a few days each year to partner with Audencia professors on their publication process.

More importantly, I’ve been lucky to work closely with some of the faculty, including Sandrine Frémeaux, who was one of my favourite professors when I was a student. She is a wonderful, fascinating person who manages to make law exciting. Today, I have the pleasure of working with her on a paper due to be published soon. It’s a privilege I would never have thought possible back when she was my professor!

How do you see the next stages of your career?

I’m already lucky to be a tenured professor at Cambridge, so I have some control over my choices between research, teaching, student support and influencing public policy. However, the holy grail would of course be to get a professorship.

I am eligible but the application process is long and tedious, as one would expect in such a venerable institution. I filled out a fifty-page application with letters of recommendation and convincing arguments.

However, being a tenured professor gives me the opportunity to do other things besides research, hence my investment in the incubator and in the life of King’s College. I really enjoy this entrepreneurial aspect of my job.

And more generally, how do you see the future?

I live in a country that is going simultaneously through the consequences of Brexit, the pandemic and a global energy and economic crisis. We’ve recently lost a lot of European friends because of Brexit and I’d certainly love to see people return as there are still great opportunities, not just in finance.

I would like alumni to continue to look at Britain as an attractive choice to live and work. For me, expatriation is a great experience, a real asset. I love being French outside France.

We are often caricatured, and in fact, at the university, we French colleagues are seen as the grumblers. In meetings, we’re the ones who argue or get upset and our hierarchy doesn’t always like it. However, I like the idea that in France, we don’t have problems challenging what we think is questionable.

Beyond that, expatriation is an adventure and filled with shared experiences. When I watch football with my brother-in-law, I’m torn between the two sides but I get to win each time! In many ways I feel British today, but for them I am French first and foremost. Maybe it’s my accent (laughs).

My advice to students today is to go for the expatriation adventure, even if it’s just for a few months or even a few years. It’s worth it.

Can you take us through the inception of Webhelp?

The company started on a whim. Afterwards, there are things that seem obvious, but at the time, it was more a question of intuition. It’s not entirely rational, you just feel that a combination of factors is there and you have to seize it. There is also a bit of luck, but as Pasteur said, “Chance favours only the prepared mind”, and I think I was prepared.

We realised that the Internet was turning into a huge library, so it needed a librarian. At a time when Google didn’t yet exist, the idea was to build a human-assisted search engine. We wanted to disrupt the world of the call centre by imagining a much more digitalised customer relationship, through interfaces such as emails, chats, videos, etc.

This idea was very successful and we quickly attracted big investors like Bernard Arnaud, via Europ@web, our first reference shareholder. We created a buzz and the product quickly gained notoriety but, it wasn’t profitable! At the time, monetisation through advertising and data worked well in theory but was very different in reality. Each time someone asked a question on the platform, we lost money, which meant I knew how many days were left before I had to rewrite my CV!

We remedied this by moving from B2C to B2B. We quickly won our first clients who were Internet service providers and the first e-commerce sites. We recruited ex-consultants from consulting firms to strengthen our upstream consulting, we came up with a very techy, innovative offer and we decided to relocate resources to reduce costs. All these decisions explain the early success of Webhelp, which then established itself in France as the new player in customer relations outsourcing.

If you had to share one piece of advice that you learned from your entrepreneurial adventure, what would it be?

I think we all too often underestimate a company’s potential for development. If I had a message to pass on to future entrepreneurs, it would be to look out for a world of opportunities and possibilities. The expression “the sky’s the limit” is true and even when you reach your goal, there’s always more territory to explore.

When we launched Webhelp, we set ourselves the goal of becoming the leader in France. This seemed like a far away objective for such a small company, but we succeeded. France represents 4.5% of the world’s GDP, which means that 95% of the wealth is elsewhere, so our next objective was to become number one in Europe. From where we stood, it seemed almost impossible to achieve but we did. So now, when I tell my teams that today’s objective is to be world number one, they think I’m crazy but I always tell them: “If you don’t laugh when I tell you about my objectives, then they are not ambitious enough!”

At the end of the day, the mountain always seems smaller once you’re at the top. This is something I have learned over the past 20 years. As an entrepreneur, it has been a real discovery to realise how much you should not be afraid of thinking big.

However, I have to admit that we have never had any serious failures. Of course there have been ups and downs and difficulties, but no major events that could have endangered the future of Webhelp. This is perhaps partly because we have a very sophisticated risk management system. Inevitably we take risks, because in order to move forward you have to be daring, but the thoroughness of our analysis means that we have never put the company at risk, even in the context of the 27 acquisitions we have made.

Do you attach particular importance to your professional environment?

I have one very strong belief that I repeat to my teams: start with the who not with the what. The women and men who work with us are more important than anything else is. For me, human capital is the combination of an individual’s intrinsic abilities – i.e., their skills on a subject – and their ethos. The right skills won’t work if the right mind set isn’t there.

I spend a lot of time recruiting the right people. I put ethos and mind set at the top of my recruitment criteria. Ethos in a company is like education in a family. You can train people in skills they don’t have, but you can’t change their ethos. Of course, there is no right or wrong ethos, but it doesn’t work to have too many different ones in a company. Diversity is important but it has its limits. A certain cultural homogeneity is necessary to avoid the risk of inertia. So we make sure we have as much diversity as possible in our ranks, while ensuring a certain cultural coherence that tallies with our company. The American professor and consultant Peter Drucker used to say “Culture eats strategy for breakfast”, and it is so true!

Are you prone to stress?

Yes, I am, but I think there are two forms of stress, one that paralyses and one that energises. The latter generates dopamine, and as far as I’m concerned, it increases my energy tenfold. When someone tells me: “With Audencia, compared to HEC and Centrale, you won’t necessarily get a job after your internship”, it stresses me out but motivates me at the same time! I perform better in difficult situations.

In previous interviews, you mention sporting activities. How do you fit sport into your busy routine?

I still manage to do a lot of sport. Rugby and tennis was for when I was younger; now it’s mostly skiing (hors-piste or sometimes extreme) and mountain activities in general (hiking, mountaineering, in winter and in summer)… I also manage to fit in a round of golf when I’m travelling to the four corners of the globe.

Think human, think peace appears on your computer wallpaper. Why did you write this?

Think Human is the Webhelp baseline that goes with our logo because in our industry, human resources are the most valuable asset. In the world of customer relations, the heart of the reactor is the human being.

We assist major brands with their customer interaction issues. We are a consulting firm, an IT firm and a contact centre operator all in one. Therefore, we either position ourselves as a technology company or as a human resources company. I believe that the essential resource is people, not technology. All companies in the sector can acquire the same technology. However, when you manage to retain human resources through the way you treat your employees, you have a competitive advantage that is difficult to copy. Webhelp is recognised for this very people-first approach. In R&D, my investment priorities are training, onboarding, people engagement initiatives, etc.

I also believe that Think Human should be at the heart of brand thinking, for two reasons. On the one hand, the digital effect means the balance of power between brands and consumers has changed in favour of the latter. Secondly, we have moved to an experience economy where we no longer judge just the cost-benefit of a product but also everything that happens before and after the purchase, i.e., the entire customer journey.

I added Think Peace on 24 February 2022, the date Russia invaded the Ukraine…

You took your base line, Think Human, to name your foundation…

We did indeed create the Think Human Foundation with the aim of generating giveback on the subjects of inclusion and education, interesting subjects related to the fact that we are in a very people-intensive business. Initially, it was a fund supported by the company’s founders and shareholders. Now, the idea is to get all employees to participate, even if they only give a few euros. A few euros multiplied by 120,000 people makes for a sizeable annual budget.

What are you most proud of in your career?

Whenever I visit Webhelp sites around the world, I always take the time to have round table discussions with the employees who work in the contact centres. I want to know their take on the company’s culture by asking them the question: “How do you talk about Webhelp to your friends and family? I am very proud of the consistency of their answers, which underline that we make a difference through our social management policy. I am very touched by this. The consistency of our HR policy throughout the company is probably the thing I am most proud of.

Can you take us through a typical day for you?

There are two. The first is when I get to work from home. I can get a lot done by video. In this case, I like to get up early; I start by reading the papers, working and doing 45 minutes of sport. By 9.30am, I’m ready for my first meetings. I work almost seven days a week. I lighten up a bit at the weekend but I still work a bit because I like it.
The second sort of day is when I am travelling. We are present in about sixty countries, with 230 production centres and contact centres. I have to go and see my customers, accompany my teams so I spend more than 200 days a year travelling.

Do you nurture an entrepreneurial spirit in your five children?

It’s important to be influential without being manipulative or coercive. I don’t want to interfere; they have to find their own way and there are no wrong routes to go down. Just because I’m an entrepreneur doesn’t mean they have to do the same! The value of example, which is valid whatever the profession, is the desire to do well, discipline, seriousness, effort. Personally, I try to do everything to the full, and not just on the job.

Your LinkedIn profile mentions that you are a graduate of the Wine and Spirit Education Trust. I guess this means you have a favourite wine!

That’s correct! I am passionate about discovering vineyards all over the world. My favourite wine is Emidio Pépé from the Abruzzo region in Italy… to accompany an autumn meal (with game and mushrooms…).

What are your plans for the weekend?

Some friends are coming to stay with us in Brussels. We’re going to take a little trip to Bruges and Antwerp. A bit of sightseeing, a bit of sport, and a bit of work of course! (laughs)